INTERVIEW WITH ALEX HORNEST (ONESTO) – PART I
Alex Hornest quickly accepted my invitation for an interview to tell me more about the mural he made in Rotterdam in 2009 for the RUA festival. This mural would later become part of the Rotterdam Street Art Museum collection, until its disappearance when the building was renovated.
Alex and I are separated by many kilometers and an ocean, making an in-person interview impossible. But amidst this distance, we share something special, a common cultural bond that unites us: the Portuguese language. It’s incredible how this connection helped our conversation flow effortlessly, to the point where we lost track of time. Alex has a very relaxed demeanor and a radiant serenity, which I am sure are key factors in the success he has achieved throughout his 30-year career. He is an artist from the outskirts of São Paulo, Brazil, who now embraces and conquers various corners of the world with his cartoon-style murals.
Cláudia Freitas: Today’s interview aims to promote and better understand the mural you did here in Rotterdam and learn more about you and your work in general. First, to start our interview, how were you contacted to create this mural at Kruisplein?
Alex Hornest: In the early 2000s, I was working in Rio de Janeiro when I met Anuki, the director of an NGO called Caramundo. During that encounter, she mentioned her desire to bring Brazilian artists to create large-scale murals in the Netherlands, not just Rotterdam. We stayed in touch, and about 4 to 5 years passed until she managed to secure the necessary materials, support, and authorizations to make it possible. I was excited that it was an innovative project intended to give Rotterdam a new look. The goal was to change the environment and alter the urban landscape through painting. However, they also managed to promote many other things and, in the future, many other paintings as well.
CF: I know other artists were also involved in the project when you received the invitation. My question is: did you interact with these artists during the execution of the artwork? Or did you work alone?
AH: The coolest thing about how they worked was that they gave us a lot of autonomy to do our work at our own pace. When we arrived in the city, they gave us a cell phone, a bicycle, and the key to the apartment, showed us around, and gave us a little schedule for meals if we wanted to have with the whole team to socialize with others. We had a lot of freedom. I remember that the painting took several days, not just one week. If we wanted to stay for 15 days or even longer, it was possible; they arranged that for us. They made sure the artist was as comfortable as possible. They also organized many activities together, like breakfast, for example. Instead of going to any establishment, they prepared it in a very welcoming way so everyone gathered. They managed to secure the support of a local hotel where all the artists stayed in the same place, so it was great for meeting and hanging out with other artists. This type of artistic residency seemed perfect to me, so when I returned to Brazil, I created events with the same dynamic. I found it really interesting.
CF: So I believe this contact with the other people involved in the project helped you be more creative and think outside the box, right?
AH: Exactly!
CF: Now that I’ve asked about working here, I would like to know what it’s like to work and, especially, stand out in one of the most graffitied cities in the world?
AH: I understood early on that with just graffiti, I wouldn’t be able to achieve this projection and fulfill my dream. So I needed to study art itself, not just contemporary art, but also classical art, all the artistic principles that could give me the knowledge to have a different perception about the development of an idea and even about other materials. Knowing how to deal with scarcity is difficult here in Brazil; even today, a spray can is costly. But I was lucky to grow up in this distinctive city, which inspired me greatly. Having access to biographies of recognized artists, volunteering in artists’ studios, and understanding how they acted gave me many options for how I could act and combine it with graffiti techniques. I tried everything within my reach: I had the streets, galleries, museums, and the internet, which was a recent thing at the time… It was a combination of many means to stand out. And as you said, here we have a lot of graffiti in São Paulo, primarily known as “pixação,” which gives a great sense of city volume and fills the space. “Pixação” is something similar to tagging. Still, I could differentiate myself because I didn’t only do letters but also highly recognizable characters. Even today, I think I’m seen with a style that is very distinct from others.
CF: Since you mentioned “pixo” (“pixação”), one of my questions was also about that, because I know it’s a significant aspect in Brazil, especially in São Paulo. I would like to know if “pixo” influenced your work and if you practice or have practiced it.
AH: I never did “pixo,” but I’ve always admired it; I’ve always had a close connection to it, and I have several friends who are “pixadores” (people who do “pixo”). And that made me discover new possibilities for acquiring more skills by observing how “pixo” is done, how they paint the letters, and how they go out in groups. Their dynamics are very similar to graffiti. But they have some particular rules. For example, in graffiti, you can cross another tag, but in “pixo,” it’s seen as wrong, as an offense. You have to look for spaces where there is nothing there.
CF: You can’t cross it? Is it really seen as disrespectful?
AH: That can happen, but normally, it ends up causing fights. You can see that the aesthetics of “pixação” can create a very distinct visual: some larger letters, some smaller ones that make a texture where you can identify all the names. In tags, it’s more difficult and more overlapped. Of course, crossing over in graffiti also causes disagreements, but it’s different. In graffiti culture, one discipline is more powerful than the other. For example, the tag is smaller than the throw-up, the throw-up is smaller than the piece, the piece is smaller than the wildstyle, and so on, allowing the overlapping. In “Pixo,” you don’t have that; since the aesthetics are the same, you don’t have the right to cover someone else’s work.
CF: So, would it be like working in a large collective? Could we say that? Is everyone working towards the same goal?
AH: I would say yes because everyone has the same intention; everyone wants to leave their name on the streets, so why would they want to cover someone else? There’s the aspect of surpassing the other; some paint only at the bottom, others in the middle of the building, and others at the top. So, there’s this aspect of one being more powerful than the other, but not because of aesthetics, but rather due to the audacity of the location, the courage to climb a building, enter, and reach the top. It’s not so much about what you paint. But of course, that’s also important. Only here is done lettering with the roller brush; spray is worldwide. But roller? Only here in Brazil, especially in São Paulo.
CF: Now, I would like to know how your first contact with artistic production was. Was graffiti your gateway? Or did you start with something else?
AH: I was constantly exposed to art from a young age. Fortunately, my family has several artists: dancers, musicians, painters… So, this artistic universe always sparked my curiosity. As I grew up, I started to notice the city more, walking through the streets, seeing some paintings, a lot of “pixação” and that made me want to learn more. And this was mixed with the sculptures in the city. I always liked art, comic books… anything that is part of the artistic universe has always interested me. But then, at that time, a movie called “Beat Street” came out, which portrayed all the artistic disciplines of Hip Hop – dance (breakdance), singing (MC), painting (Graffiti), and DJing. My father was also a DJ at some parties, but when I saw the movie, I saw everything as a whole. But since I was already drawing, graffiti caught my attention the most, especially when the film showed people painting trains, where their names would circulate throughout the city. I thought that was what I wanted to do, but I didn’t start doing graffiti then; I watched that movie in the 80s and only started painting in the 90s. There was a period there to try to understand. In the 80s, many cultures were emerging, so I went through other movements before getting into Hip Hop.
CF: But did you start painting with graffiti or another style instead?
AH: Yes, I had already painted before, and I had already done my drawings… I knew I would go down this path; I knew I would work with art. When I was skateboarding, I would already make designs for t-shirts, and for the skateboard deck, I tried to promote my work. But then, over time, I realized that I could also use the streets not only to show my work but as a medium to spread my ideas. But I knew, as I mentioned before, that graffiti was not enough. I wouldn’t reach the places I wanted to go. So, I needed to incorporate other things, be versatile, and show other ideas. And why not add more value to graffiti? Because I didn’t see other writers willing to experiment with different techniques, the spray was enough for them. Not for me; for example, I would use cement to create a texture on the wall. I would mix clay with latex to create a different brown color… I tried to understand the surroundings. When I did the characters, it wasn’t just for them to be there; I wanted them to add value to that space and give it a different perception.
CF: It was interesting that you previously took a business administration degree. Did you take it to help you manage your artistic work in the future, or was it something you really wanted and didn’t work out?
AH: Actually, I studied business administration because I couldn’t find something that interested me. I finished school, had to choose a career, and couldn’t find anything related to the arts. So, instead of taking a regular course, I would take a technical one. That’s when I got my business administration degree. At the time, I didn’t think about any of this; I just wanted a degree that would guarantee me a future job, the possibility of working in a large company, or something like that. I found an art school during the course, but I thought it was better to finish what I was doing and then enroll in another one. That way, I would have two degrees and equivalence for some subjects. However, it helped me a lot and still helps me understand business management today.
From my interaction with Alex, it’s clear that effort and sacrifice were essential to his journey as a recognized artist. In a world where the need for survival often kills the most creative spirits, that was not his fate: his many life experiences added value to what he produced and made his art even more enriching. As he said, the triple journey – working during the day, studying at night, and creating art on weekends – was constant in his youth days; persistence eventually paid off, considering that Alex now has well-deserved recognition. When I asked him what it meant to perform/ make art in public spaces and if it was his favorite place, he said that he distinguishes artistic intentions very well and tries to reach everything possible. However, he prioritizes the sensation of the urban environment:
AH:I prefer working on the street. The street is much more interesting and stimulating. (…) In the street, people’s reactions are immediate. Someone can pass by and become interested or report, and all of that is fulfilling. It’s very good because you learn to deal with situations, create mechanisms, and meet people you never imagined. The street is very powerful.
This interview with Alex will continue in Part II. Stay tuned!
