INTERVIEW WITH HERMAN LAMERS – PART I
Herman arrived at the location we had agreed upon, on his bicycle. Although I had never seen him before, I immediately recognized him and called out to him. He responded with a big smile and a relaxed attitude that greatly characterizes him. We went up the stairs and did the usual greetings with other people in the office; coffee was served (and for Mr. Lamers with a little bit of sugar). I had in mind the questions I wanted to ask him. Yet Herman, as a true protagonist, took over the interview, which made our conversation more organic and real. His very particular sense of humor also gave this moment an incredible lightness and authenticity.
Herman brought a book containing all his artworks, or at least a large part of them, which I was pleased about because this book contained a compilation of high-quality photographs, which allowed me to observe even the smallest details of each artwork. Without any questions, Herman immediately began talking about one of his sculptures in the Oude Westen “Zebra in the Nest.”
Herman Lamers: In the Second World War, it was the bombing of Rotterdam, and there were a lot of strange animals on the streets (because of a zoo that was in the city, in Blijdorp), and everyone made the story bigger and talked about lions, zebras, and hippos (laughs), which makes the story of WWII a little bit stranger. It was really something very strange happening, like a surrealistic thing when you see these kinds of animals. And this was a kind of awareness that something was really happening, as well as the burning and all of those things; everyone was in shock. And then they asked me to do something for that spot… so that means that the zebras are sitting in the wrong place at the wrong time. That’s also the name of the artwork: “Wrong Place, Wrong Time.” That’s the title of the work… the zebra is standing in the wrong spot, at the wrong time, looking at Blijdorp.
Cláudia Freitas: Did you say the artwork’s name was “In the Wrong Place at the Wrong Time”?
HL: Yes.
CF: Because when I saw it on the website, I read…
HL: Zebra in the Nesten?
CF: Yes.
HL: I use both… Zebra in the Nesten is a Dutch saying. It means in trouble, zebra in trouble, in a way. When you translate it, it would be more like that. Because it’s standing in the wrong place at the wrong moment. I wanted that originally with more lights, but the government was against it. I also like the zebra as it is, not in color; it’s in aluminum. It has no color anymore, like it has no emotion…
Promptly, Herman flipped through his book again to show the other sculpture he did for Oude Westen: The Giant of Rotterdam. The Giant of Rotterdam is not just a statue but the real story of Rigardus Rijnhout, a man who was 2.37 meters tall and stood out for that very reason.
HL: He lived in the Juvenstraat, which was the spot where his family was living. I found it very interesting that this room (the sculpture space representing his room) was just on the other side of the street (from the real room), the same size as the room he was living in. There are a lot of interesting stories about him because everybody knew him in those days, and he seemed much taller because many people were your size more than my size (laughs); 2.37m seemed enormous. What is your size?
CF: My size? 1.58m (laughs).
HL: (laughs) Almost double! Everyone likes to stand close to the sculpture to see how big he really was.
CF: Yes, I did that too!
HL: But the story about him was that, at the end of his life, he could not go out of his room because of the stairs, and he was so big and heavy that, with age, he wasn’t very agile going up and down. So, he would look out of his window to go outside. He was also very tired of all the people who wanted to use him because he was normally used as an advertisement figure. His mother hated this, but his father used him to earn money. His brother also liked to go to the café and drink a lot, and he picked fights, expecting Rigardus to fight for him. But he didn’t like fights. Everyone was trying to use him in this way because he was big and strong. But he was very gentle, polite, and even shy.
CF: Did you meet him?
HL: No, but I know a lot of stories about him. And that was also the reason there was a lot of discussion about how he had to look in the sculpture, because at the end of his life, he was very ill; everything on his body was continuously growing and he died because his body was, in a way, always expanding. His family feared that people would make him a joke in the sculpture, as a freak. So, they monitored me constantly, as he was supposed to look appropriate. I had to make him nice and handsome, not as he was at the end of his life, but more like his younger self.
CF: What did Rigardus think? Did he like the attention?
HL: He was used. It was the 1950s, and Rotterdam was a really poor harbor city. But anyway, he was also a growing person, and Rotterdam was the biggest harbor in the world, and we had the tallest man in the world, too. That was a combination people liked, something extraordinary happening in Rotterdam. Because Rotterdam had that image of just working and no character, no culture. I represented him with his shoes off, in socks, because that makes the giant look weaker. Makes him more sensitive. Then I wanted to make the shoes… the actual shoes are in Dippo in Rotterdam, and I could see them, but I was not allowed to touch them because they are art objects.
CF: But did you make a replica?
HL: Yes, I made a replica in Portugal. It was the only place in Europe that made such an enormous size, one of the largest shoes ever made. But then the shoe company wanted to put their name on the shoes, and the family was so against every form of advertisement that they were angry about that. They had already had a bad experience before with him being used; his father was a terrible trauma in his life. And the chair is also a replica of the one he used to sit in. At the end of his life, he was no longer able to go out of the room, so I created a space to make it feel as though he was looking outside through the window.
CF: Can you explain the shadow effect and how it came to you? What does that mean?
HL: What do you think? (laughs)
CF: For me, this means that you are emphasizing the idea of the Giant, but I want to hear it from you (laughs).
HL: The memory is bigger than the real thing, of course. And the shadow reproduces that influence. The image of the idea is much larger than reality. You can see that he is important, big, and tall, and the shadow is even larger than the real person. So, it is like an allusion to that.
CF: Why do you think people asked you to make this sculpture? Why him? Why is it important to represent him in this area?
HL: A lot of people remember that, at that time, there wasn’t that much happening in Rotterdam; we had the tallest man and the biggest harbor, so there was nothing else. I think Rotterdam has a little bit of frustration because Amsterdam was the big city; it was there that everything happened. Rotterdam, no, the city was bombed in the war, which was frustrating. It took a long time for Rotterdam to become a vital city again. In the 70s and 80s, they started to rebuild the city. Rotterdam was an empty city with nothing that important. But he, Rigardus, was important!
CF: So, you believe that he was one of the things that made the city stand out?
HL: Yes, really. The old city was gone; it was a completely different city from what it is now. The first city in Holland to have big buildings and this kind of thing, but that was different from the city’s initial character. Rotterdam had to rebuild its own image. And Rotterdam is really a frustrated city. It was not as romantic as Amsterdam; it had a tougher environment, a well-known place for prostitution and a mix of all cultures. In the 50s, no one liked that, but now people find multicultural places attractive. In those days, it was not like that. There was a lot of discrimination. There were many strange things here in Rotterdam; it wasn’t a normal city. No, Rotterdam was a completely different city from other towns. And the Giant was one of the things that made it stand out. He was very friendly, and I was inspired by a children’s story called “Friendly Giant.”
Then Herman continued talking about his artwork. It is clear from speaking with him how passionate he is about what he does, and the conversation between us just flowed naturally. It is noticeable that he has a deep appreciation for this specific work, the Giant. I think this Giant brings him great many memories, not of this person in particular (taking into consideration that Herman had never actually met him), but memories of the past, of old Rotterdam, of times even before Herman came to this city and began his career as an artist here. As he said, the memory is bigger than the real thing. Memories, not specifically our own, can continuously live in a kind of time capsule, as fantasies in our minds, yet as real and tangible things when they become art.
Loved this conversation? Part 2 is coming soon!
